Player for Desktop
under review
S
Simon Trent
In corporate settings, where designs cannot be hosted by a third party, there needs to be a desktop player to share prototypes with stakeholders especially when working on web apps at full scale.
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
If you need to run desktop prototypes offline, ProtoPie Connect already makes it possible 🔥. It's an extension app unlocked with our paid plans (Pro, Enterprise): https://www.protopie.io/learn/docs/connect/getting-started
Andre Azevedo
Hi, I am André Azevedo. I never posted before in this forum.
Here is a brief history of my engagement with Protopie.
In 2018, I was fed up with the way we do Playback on devices on set and embarked in a journey to find a "Prototyping Design App" that allowed for remoting into the devices. At the time I researched about 25 apps and came with 3 or so apps that were top contenders.
Protopie was a clear winner because it was cross platform: Mac, PC, iOS and Android. In 2018, I paid $99 for the Desktop editor and the only way to remote the devices was to do it via the Protopie Bridge ( Protopie connect uses bridge as well) using send and receive Triggers and both the device and the Computer with Protopie Studio had to be connected to the same network. There was no way to save the file to the device if you wanted to remote in.
Protopie made some advances, added keypress as a trigger and liberated us from having to operate the device on a network.
Still, if you wanted a computer to play a Pie you needed to either load a license of the Studio (not an option for PCs, because the preview on a PC doesn't go fullscreen) or use the cloud.
I invited a couple of Protopie team members to come to my set when they were visiting NYC from Korea and showed to them why a desktop player was essential. The first request I made for this feature was in 2018.
Here are a few reasons why:
1- We set up between 20-30 devices (laptops, mac minis, android tablets, iPads, iPhones, Android phones) at the start of production.
These devices do not belong to us (operators) nor the Graphic designer sending us files to play on set. The devices are either props or production owned. We try hard not to have to set up anything "set side" but rather prepare the devices ahead of time.
2- We often shoot in remote locations with no wifi. Also, network frequencies are a real battle on sets. Almost every department (camera, electric, ect) has a local network competing for airspace, making the use of bluetooth more desirable than Local network at times.
3- Protopie bridge or Connect doesn't allow for one to many - For example: In script we have 25 devices getting the same trigger(text message). In Remote desktop I can send a unix command to all my mac minis, and laptops. But in my experience bridge has a limit of 6 devices. I have attempted to trigger multiple devices without any success. Also, the operator is dependent on the Protopie studio to send the trigger. Where if it was stand along a trigger could be sent remotely via Remote desktop.
I love Protopie. I have taught numerous classes to both Graphic designers and video operators alike. Some of the very posters making the request for a stand along player for desktop are my students.
Some of my templates have traveled the work and this app has empowered people to do great work.
I understand that Protopie needs to get money for licenses and capitalize on its awesome product. However, not providing our industry with a stand alone player won't make us get more licenses. It makes us look for alternatives. I have started using XD with plugins to html for my PCs, for example.
Our industry is not a big company with many seats. We are a normally a few freelancers who create prototypes to many devices. We are not going to buy more seats. We are only going to find alternatives elsewhere. We generally have 1 designer and 1 operator per production. Rarely a production will have more than 2 licenses. Our work environment is fast paced and there is no room for error or waiting for us to troubleshoot a connection. Most of the time 5 minutes waiting represents thousands of dollars.
Please consider reintroducing this request into a feature instead of a discussion topic. We have been discussing it for 5 years.
respectfully,
André
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Hi everyone! We opened a conversation about this request in our ProtoPioneers community: https://community.protopie.io/c/bugs/running-desktop-pies-offline
If you'd like to contribute and share your feedback, feel free to join the conversation and add your comments to the thread 🙂
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
under review
Richard OLDFIELD
Patricia (ProtoPie Team): oh no!? What’s happened?
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Richard OLDFIELD: This request is under discussion, but there are no concrete implementation plans at this time. ProtoPie Connect already enables users to preview desktop prototypes without a connection through localhost. Our product team needs to gain a better understanding of the specific needs and challenges related to this request!
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Richard OLDFIELD: I've also opened a thread about this in ProtoPioneers, perhaps you can join the conversation there if you have any comments: https://community.protopie.io/c/bugs/running-desktop-pies-offline
Richard OLDFIELD
Patricia (ProtoPie Team): multiple people have already spent time giving detailed explanations as to how this would be of huge benefit and how ProtoPie connect fails to fit the bill.
Not sure how it’s not understood by the product team?
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Richard OLDFIELD: other features have been prioritized so far. They can't clearly understand why using ProtoPie Connect is not a viable solution, as it allows for full offline previewing of desktop prototypes (without being logged out of the app). This is the point they would like to gather more feedback on.
Shino
Patricia (ProtoPie Team): protopie connect doens't load on WinPro10 22H2, tried 2 machines, MSI laptop and Lenovo x1 fold
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Shino: If you're having trouble running Connect, please contact our support team at https://www.protopie.io/form/contact-us
They'll be happy to help you! Thanks.
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
planned
Nathaniel Bell
Patricia (ProtoPie Team): Does this refer to Connect, or to an actual stand alone Player?
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Nathaniel Bell: An actual stand alone desktop player!
Steve Tompkins
Hi, will this be available for anyone to download the player and play an exported ProtoPie? (like mobile) Thanks just wanted to be sure it is what I am hoping for.
Michael Cerisano
Patricia (ProtoPie Team): Oh thank god! This needs to happen asap. Jerry below is 100% correct (Hi jerry! Mike who fills in for Sean D sometimes.)
What's truly crazy in you guys already built this! Just allow me to run the Protopie player app from iOS on m1 macs, that's an option in submitting to the app store, you can compile for both iOS and MacOS running on m1. You don't even have to use that as an official solution, but if you were to allow it to run on a Mac I could at least have a chance at running these things locally. The browser option is absolutely terrible for Film and TV work, it works but it's caused SO many issues. I've been yelled at by Oscar-winning directors for issues it causes and time wasted which I cannot stop from happening. Protopie Connect is an even worse suggestion on every level.
My current solution I'm testing is a single board computer, running android, loading the APK of Protopie Player and then running the pies like that on TV's and desktop monitors. This should not be necessary.
Protopie is so close to a game changer in so many ways for our industry but it's low-hanging fruit like this that keeps it from being universally used.
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Michael Cerisano: thank you for the feedback Michael. I really hope our product team can make this happen soon. We don't have an exact timeframe for the implementation yet.
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Michael Cerisano: Our product team would like to better understand why using ProtoPie Connect is not a solution - as it's capable of running prototypes offline. Could you perhaps elaborate on that point?
Michael Cerisano
Patricia (ProtoPie Team):
Its very simple and also has to do with a HUGE issue I have with Protopie Studio in general. Phoning home.
Even if I did change my plan from the grandfathered individual plan to pro giving me access to the connect program, your need to verify my subscription constantly makes this absolutely unusable. It's far worse than even adobe's practices.
If my Macbook is not connected to the internet, which on film sets, is most of the time, Protopie Studio asks me to login. Even if I was logged in and connected to the internet 10 minutes prior, if I boot studio disconnected from the internet I cannot use it without logging in. Having internet, or even cell reception is NOT guaranteed on film sets. Local networks over lan or wifi sure, but not internet.
You can imagine this being an issue when we are asked to make changes to a Protopie being used in a scene at that very moment. So with pressure on, and no time to waste I've gotta go find internet somewhere, login, then make my changes then get the changes on device. Now getting the changes on device is as easy as a UBC C thumb drive, or airdropping on an iOS device. The bottle neck is Studio and its need to verify the subscription EVERY boot rather than at the very most daily. This has gone bad on more than one occasion.
Now imagine if this was a requirement on Protopie Player on mobile devices like it is Connect.
For example an actor accidentally kills the Player, or it crashes... then because there is no internet on the soundstage, I have to take the phone, find working wifi, log back in, re-open the Protopie and get it back to the actor.... all of that time wasted and money burned in that time, for what is likely a simple fake text message, phone call or some other glorified animation the actor is interacting with.
Every use of Protopie in film and TV would end immediately, that is not an exaggeration.
This is why connect CANNOT work. It requires a login, and checking that login through an active web connection. 99% of the macs and pc's used in production on sets are NEVER connected to the internet.
- Because it is an unnecessary complication
- Because of security risks.
If I wanted to use Connect I'd have to get each computer (there could be upwards of 50+ on a big set) logged in and boot into the Protopie. If the power gets pulled (which happens on a film set often) I have to make sure the internet stays constant or I won't be able to get into Connect again. Often when I need internet and don't have it I use my cell phone hotspot.
Ok fine, lets say I spent the whole morning setting up connect on each device, logging in via my cell phone hotspot, and opening the file. Now imagine power gets pulled on that set and I have to re-connect to my cell phone hotspot on each computer, then re-login on Connect then open the file. Holy moly talk about a delay on set that I cannot risk. This is why most sets will not use Protopie beyond phone and tablet gags.
I already can get the interactivity between pies offline, using mobile devices, a router and my laptop with Studio as a bridge. The player app does everything we need offline. Connect is overly complicating things and offering me no new functionality I need. I'm sure Connect is wonderful for certain industries, but for all of us in film and tv it is not a solution.
For your understanding, how I do it now is to open safari with my cell phone as internet, open Protopie cloud and the pie. Fullscreen it, make the cursor an arrow instead of a circle, then disconnect from my hotspot. Then I tell the actor to PLEASE not to mouse up and make the address bar show, and also to not refresh the page. Not the best, but its the best we got.
Now on the other hand, having a simple, full screen-able desktop version of the Protopie Player (which already exists on iOS) available on Mac OS (not necessarily even windows, that's a distant second priority for all of us)... the usage of Protopie in film and tv would be endless for the foreseeable future.
Hope that clarifies things
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Michael Cerisano: Thank you for the detailed explanation. It's definitely much clearer now! We'll discuss these points internally :)
Richard OLDFIELD
Patricia (ProtoPie Team):
Just got to jump in here.
The comment from Michael Cerisano
"not necessarily even windows, that's a distant second priority for all of us".... is not true.
A Windows Desktop player is top priority for myself and others.
Pretty much everything else Michael explained was on the money.
Nathaniel Bell
Michael Cerisano: Very well said. I second all this whole heartedly. I have tried to bring up these issues with the phoning home of studio, but have not given such a clear (and 100 percent correct) warning that if the players start doing the same thing thing, Film and TV use will have to end. Being truly offline has been Protopie’s greatest strength until the recent pricing structure change, and any further changes will force us to find another solution, which none of us want to do
Jerry Witt
Michael Cerisano: Thank you for posting that detailed explanation. I hope that the folks at Protopie understand that offering a free desktop player will grow their user base and not shrink it.
On sets where there are 20 or 50 desktop screens we require the device to be off the network. We create apps that are as simple and user-friendly as possible for the scene.
Currently we author .app and .exe files using Adobe Director. We have experimented with Unity, Hype and recently Godot Engine. But all of our designers love Protopie and hope y'all can make an offline player a reality.
Chad Valiquette
Patricia (ProtoPie Team): Has there been any updates on this? We are so frustrated on the last two major tv series we've been on that this doesn't exist. I can't even tell you the amount of business you'd get if there was a desktop stand alone app. We need this so bad. Prototypes are growing and growing in film/tv.
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Chad Valiquette: Thank you for your feedback! We are discussing this request internally. We don't have any concrete updates to share at this time. I will escalate your comment to our product managers, hoping that they will be able to address this issue in 2023!
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Chad Valiquette: I'vopened a thread about this in ProtoPioneers, perhaps you can join the conversation there if you have any comments: https://community.protopie.io/c/bugs/running-desktop-pies-offline
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
If you need to run desktop prototypes offline, ProtoPie Connect already makes it possible 🔥. It's an extension app unlocked with our paid plans (Pro, Enterprise): https://www.protopie.io/learn/docs/connect/getting-started
Nathaniel Bell
Patricia (ProtoPie Team):Is there a way for the long time Individual Plan subscribers (but can’t afford the ridiculous and misguided 8x price increase to a SINGLE SEAT Pro account) be able to try Connect?
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Nathaniel Bell: Unfortunately Connect cannot be used with an Individual plan :(
Michael Hearty
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Protopie Connect does not fulfill the task many of us are requesting.
All we are asking for is a simple standalone player. I work in film and television and use Protopie as a way to mimic desktop interactions, for example. I don't want to run a complicated server system under the time constraints of a complex shoot day, I also don't need connectivity to other devices, etc.
I certainly don't want to pay 80 USD per month for the headache (I acknowledge the yearly plan is less per month). I have to agree with others that your new pay structure is very imbalanced, but that's another discussion.
The simple straightforward answer is that a standalone player is not in the cards?
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Michael Hearty: The Connect Desktop app is actually really easy to use, but yes its main purpose is not allowing users to run desktop prototypes offline. It has been designed to enable connected experiences across multiple devices first of all.
Unfortunately, a standalone desktop player for the Free plan and grandfathered Individual plan is currently not in the roadmap 😕
Richard OLDFIELD
Patricia (ProtoPie Team): But is it on the roadmap at all?
As discussed... a simple standalone player. That works much the same as the mobile player. Even if it was part of a paid plan?
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
Richard OLDFIELD: Currently a Player app-like desktop standalone player is not in the roadmap. We'll however re-discuss this with our product team!
Jerry Witt
Michael Hearty, Richard OLDFIELD,
For what ever reason, ProtoPie is very resistant to providing the same stand-alone, free, ProtoPie Player functionality that is on mobile devices to desktop computers. Protopie Connect simply will not work on movie production sets.
We have been experimenting with generating HTML 5 from Tumult HYPE! Pro for desktop playback. It has been used on several TV shows and will likely become my primary development platform this season. It's not quite as easy to use as ProtoPie, but the files generated can be deployed to Mac and PC computers (as well as tablets and mobile devices).
Michael McDougall
Jerry Witt: That's good info - thanks Jerry.
m moon
Patricia (ProtoPie Team): I'm voicing support for what Michael Hearty described above. For some prototypes and for the work we do – keeping files local is highly preferred for simplicity and speed – and in fact many companies have policies around not allowing to be stored / access via servers/online (how Connect is described). Desktop players seems like table stakes and a bit of a no-brainer (vs a 'nice to have')
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
m moon: Thank you. Just one clarification, you can load locally saved files to ProtoPie Connect, you just need a connection to log into the app like in ProtoPie Studio.
Andre Azevedo
Jerry Witt: I use XD and export with a plugin called Anima. But that goes just so far. Yet, it work great for scrolling and simple apps. Then just go full screen on a browser.
Michael Hearty
Yes Please! It would be a great benefit to be able to have offline desktop players for UI design in film and televison. It would be a game changer in the film production world!
Jerry Witt
I just wish we could get this feature request "under review."
Patricia (ProtoPie Team)
C
Charles Yuen
Or being able to export it as an executable would be great.
Nathaniel Bell
Charles Yuen: This is DEFINITELY the dream
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